Interview with Gordon MacDonald

GM: One of the things that I've observed is that resilient people have a clear understanding of their own stories. They can identify the events and people which shaped them as people. Resilient people are in touch with the outcome of their life and consequences of their actions. They ask, "Have I learned from my mistakes and consequences?" This is wisdom. Resilient people have also mastered the art of positive remembering. They remember the things that strengthen them, the positive role models, and the encouragement they've received. So many people, as they get older, live with negative memories which disables them. When the past is a cluttered room, it becomes a burden. Yet the Bible is all about cleaning up the past and granting newness of life. In the Old Testament, Israel suffered under slavery and carried with them the memories of slavery. They thought like slaves. The story of the Bible is about a God who cleans up old consciousnesses and gives new life.

BMC: What are some of the enslaving memories that you've observed men often carry with them?

GM: Many men are living with horrifically painful memories from their childhood. Often these wounds come from their fathers. They never heard their dads take delight in them or heard that their dad saw great potential for their lives. We all long to hear the words Jesus heard from His heavenly Father, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

BMC: What suggestions would you give a man who is carrying this burden today?

GM: First, know that every man carries a wound and that their father took hits too. As Shakespeare wrote in Henry V, "then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars." Second, remember that God is our Father and He longs to heal our wounds and reaffirm us as His sons. Finally, I would suggest they seek out surrogate fathers, one or two men who can be God's fatherly presence in their life. Since I was eight, I have always had one or two strong men in my life, men who pushed me to grow. In A Resilient Life, I wrote about two men who have had a profound effect on my life - my track coach in college, Marvin Goldberg, and my life-time mentor from seminary, Vernon Grounds. Next month I'm going to turn sixty-seven and I still look to Vernon, who's now ninety-three, to speak father words into me.

BMC: When and how did you first get a sense of your life direction; the kind that you describe in your writings, from which you are able to assign order and priority to other less worthwhile pursuits?

GM: Along with being raised in the Christian tradition, my mother and grandmother bequeathed to me a sense of destiny. When I was two years old, two military bombers collided in midair over our home scattering debris all over our yard. The only place untouched was my playpen in the backyard where I was at the time. When I was four years old, I almost drowned in a pool and was pulled out at the last minute. These incidents formed the family stories that God spared me for a purpose and, consequently, I must do something with my life. Dad was an impressive preacher and I watched him like a hawk. Playing church was my favorite form of play growing up. Even as I grew older I just knew I would do church work. A call is continuous, not just an instant photographic event. I had affection for doing what leaders do. Even though my motives were often mixed, there was always a sense that my life was not my own.

BMC: What are some of the checks you personally put into place to make sure you stay resilient?

GM: Biblically, the clearest check is the Sabbath principle. We all yearn for the Sabbath experience. Life should be lived with the 6:1 principle. For every six hours you spend working, an hour should be spent on renewal. If you live with that kind of rhythm, you've got all the check you need. The second check is the quality of your marriage. Do you and your spouse have an understanding of how to spend time that's refreshing together? Do you have a favorite place to get away? Third, develop two or three very close friends; but friendships in which you're free to discuss the quality of life you are living and your relationship with God. This is not an accountability group to merely discuss how you'll avoid sins like pornography, but instead one that will help you discover God's call and develop strong convictions about what you are going to do and not do. They are there to process your life with you, pointing out both affirming and aberrant behavior. We all need people that will push us and demand something new, fresh and higher for our life.

BMC: What are your dreams today and what changes are you making to pursue them?

GM: I'm often asked to speak to all kinds of audiences. I ask myself: "Will this give me a chance to talk to young men and women as a father?" If I can't find the role of the father, then it's not in my calling.

To put more focus on this, I've given up a claim to organizational authority. I'm chairman of World Relief and preaching pastor in our New Hampshire church, but I don't run anything. My management and organization building days are over. I desire to influence through teaching leaders and preaching.

BMC: Sounds like you don't have any plans to retire anytime soon?

GM: At my age, I hear a lot of conflicting voices asking, "How long are you going to live this way?" I'm afraid that my mind would dry up and wouldn't keep intellectually robust if I wasn't pursing discipling relationships.

BMC: Gordon, we all long to be known as resilient men.  Thanks for taking the time to share your wisdom about resilient living with us.